a Shark Tank entrepreneur's view on startups and family

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey, everyone. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to the dad EO podcast. I'm your host, Rob Burnett, and along with my co host, Brad Bickerton, we're exploring modern fatherhood and how it blends with business leadership. Both Brad and I are new fathers and we both run businesses. On this podcast, you'll hear about our parenting journeys as well as from parenting experts, CEO's, and other business leaders. We're going to dive deep on being dads, business lessons, and the balance of work and fatherhood. We hope you'll join us on this journey. Please enjoy the show. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Rob Burnett. And with me, as always, hello, everybody. [00:00:44] Speaker C: I'm Brad Bickerton. [00:00:46] Speaker A: This is a podcast about modern fatherhood and how it blends with business leadership. On today's episode, hear about what's going on in our lives, including a look at the boardroom and a baby at a wedding. Then stay tuned for our interview with Anthony Franco. Anthony's a multi time founder who's appeared on Shark Tank. It's an awesome interview. You're not going to want to miss it. And as always, stay tuned to the end to hear our personal dad wins and fails for the week. But to kick us off. Brad, how you doing? How's Theo? Any business updates? [00:01:14] Speaker C: Yeah, we're doing well. He is growing and changing and going through his fussy stage and then his happy stage, and then his all I want is mom stage, and then all I want is food stage. Not every day. Maybe every other day, he'll go between these different things. So Theo's doing really, really great. One thing that has never changed from day one for him is his eye contact. He is just. He's an observer. He loves touching people with his eyes a little bit. Still wary about touching people with any other part of him, but that's good. And we'll stay for my wins and fails and some things that are going on with him on our side of it, we're still doing some of the crazy things you don't think about, like, how do you get a dog and a baby seat into the back of a car for a four hour trip? And you can think about it, but then one day you're in that car and you're moving stuff around going, I might need to switch up things here. So that's something we're looking forward to, is next week is spring break, and it'll be a nice long trip and super duper excited that, Rob, you will be in Colorado next week, and we will see each other face to face for the first time in many moons. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Many moons since before Laura was pregnant. And when Sarah Beth was pregnant, we went skiing. [00:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it was awesome. [00:02:27] Speaker D: Yeah, that would have been 15 months. [00:02:30] Speaker C: Ago, so looking forward to all that. And, yeah, I'd love to hear your updates. And then I really want to get into some work that I've been doing on the work front. And an idea for fatherhood, too, which is boards and a dad board. And so I just want to open that topic up. But first I want to hear your updates and thoughts and where you're at and what you're doing and all that. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So we're in week seven, basically. So from the last recording to now, this is kind of week seven into week eight of life for Arthur. And a big week, big week in Arthur's life. So we did our first flight, which happened to be an international flight. So we flew from London to Cleveland via Washington, DC. And so that was a huge adventure for us. And it went shockingly well. Arthur, he, like, slept at all the right times. He fed it all the right times. Like, totally. We thought a lot about it, but we just kind of, like, nailed it. So, you know, heads up to anyone who can. People love that little baby. Like the eight, the seven, eight week old. Like, all of the flight attendants were fawning over him, even people around us. We got a couple of comments about, oh, he's so good. He's so cute. Okay. Welcome to the flights. Things like that. But we did a good job. I think this is pretty common advice, but I'll just give it anyway as well. Reiterate. We had him nap as much as we could in the terminal. I had him in the sling a lot, looking out at the world, taking in the world, which he loves to do. And then we held off as much as we could. I walked up and down the aisles as everyone was boarding and everyone was getting seated. I sat down at the very last moment and we got him right on to feed just as he was starting to fuss. He kind of fed through takeoff. Oh, perfect. Yeah. Which is perfect. For anyone who doesn't know. That's because it helps their ears. Although planes these days seem to be pretty good about the pressure changes. And then basically, he fed, slept, did a little bit of fussing, but we didn't have any big cries or anything on the big eight hour flight to the states. And then kind of same thing happened on our little hour long flight to the Cleveland. So we were psyched. We kind of nailed it. That was awesome. And then the next day, basically, we got up and went to a wedding. One of my cousins. It was awesome. Arthur wasn't technically invited, and he kind of gate crashed. I felt actually pretty bad about it. It was in a museum. We kind of kept him off to the side in another wing that happened to be open. But Arthur had kind of the opposite of his easy flight. He had his hardest moment ever, I think his most fussy moment of his entire life. So we were able to see the ceremony, but then he just wouldn't calm down in a way that we really couldn't. And we couldn't really calm him. And that was a new experience for us. So we had some. It's hard to explain, our in laws. In laws came down to be a babysitter, so it was family via some marriages, and they were trying to take care of him. And we got kind of a couple little half hour stints where we got to go up to the wedding, but otherwise we were kind of taken away. But the fact that we even made it at seven weeks was like the huge win. And I'll talk a little bit about the calming and some wins and fails on that front at the end of the pod, but there's some fun stories from the wedding that I'm pretty proud of. So, yeah. So in Arthur's life, it's basically his first flight, his first wedding, and now we're home with my parents, we're settling in, and he's been bright eyed and very happy and handled the jet lag well. And then on the work front, I'll just check in there real quick. Things are going well. I'm back in the groove, and I'm trying a little new thing that I read about on parental leave called brainwriting, and it's essentially a way to collect written feedback from all your people. Before you sit down. We're a virtual company in a zoom session and have everyone brainstorm. You take a written prompt, you force everyone to put all their ideas on paper, then you anonymize it, and then you have everyone rank each other's ideas anonymized, and then, only then do you go into a meeting and all discuss it. And we've gotten through those first two steps of collecting feedback and then anonymizing, and everyone's reviewing the anonymized ideas. And only now we're about to head into our first meeting where everyone gets in and discusses, but everyone will had time to think for themselves, look at the other ideas, and I'm hoping this turns into a really nice session of kind of discuss ideas, move toward action versus, hey, I think we should do this, I think we should do that. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And kind of an idea stew in a brainstorming session, which I know everyone's experienced and hates. [00:07:10] Speaker B: That's my work. [00:07:10] Speaker C: There's an old Eisenhower quote, which is, it's amazing how much you can get done when you don't care who takes the credit. And it's very good in this anonymized process is you take away who can get the credit. Because even if somebody recognize their own thing as being pumped up, they're kind of not going to raise their hand. They might feel some warm and fuzzies about being that person, but they're not going to hold on to it. Like, this is the idea, this is me, this is all that. Because they're not getting it from the other side. They're not getting the social proof that they're amazing. They're just getting the internal proof that their ideas worthwhile and that allows the good ideas to move forward pretty great. [00:07:46] Speaker A: And when the whole team comes out of the meeting with decisions, it's the whole team did the win together because we created this new process that we're going to work through. It's not. It was my idea and I won. It was all of us worked on it. And I'm really hoping that and everyone's going to feel like they contributed. Anyone who doesn't like the outcome can't claim they didn't have a chance to influence the outcome. [00:08:09] Speaker C: Trey is. There's a parallel because I do a lot of strategic planning sessions for companies and I ask sometimes, why do you need somebody to do it? You've got five really, really smart people. Can't you guys just get in a room and do it? And the answer is no. And part of it is because the same things like you and I, let's say I had idea Apple and you had idea orange six months ago, and we fought over it and no one could make a decision and it was difficult. And then we get to the place where you're the CEO and I'm the number two, and you decide orange. [00:08:34] Speaker D: And that's fine. [00:08:35] Speaker C: I'm not maybe hurt by it, but no one ever then brings apple up ever again. It becomes a social norm that the lesser good idea is put down. Let's say orange fails or orange succeeds enough that it's time now for Apple. [00:08:47] Speaker D: To come in and no, I'm killing. [00:08:48] Speaker C: This metaphor, but that society has lost. Do we go with Apple? And so that's what a facilitator does or an anonymization process like you too. It's like that idea that's now become ripe and ready, but the society, the group, the mind, the group mind doesn't know it. Now you can bring that back up and say, well, let's reevaluate it. New context, new people, new quarter, new season. [00:09:11] Speaker D: Is it right? [00:09:12] Speaker C: I love that idea. [00:09:14] Speaker D: I'm stoked to hear the results. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll have to fill you in. Yeah. So, and Brad, talk to me about, you were going to talk about boards. Youve got some ideas brewing. [00:09:26] Speaker C: Yeah. So its something that just to be honest, I like being on boards. I think it probably has to do with the blending of strategy and then the old law degree that I have rattling around in my head and the actual governance and im on a couple and I just really enjoy the process of it. And I was saying this to a group of founders I was talking to a week ago and one of them had said, well, I've been on a couple boards and they never do anything. Say, okay, well tell me about your boards. And he talks about the descriptions of it and I said, okay, well there's a difference and this is not the distinction in law. We can get to that if we want, but there's an advisory board and a governing board and the difference to me is not, what do you call it? It's not the written legal paperwork. While there are distinctions there, for me it's three things. Make it so your board is actually helping this thing move forward versus some nice people that you get to talk to sometimes. And if you miss a meeting, nobody cares. No one does their prep work. You know, it could be a nonprofit or a startup or, and the differences are these three things, compensation, indemnification and DNO insurance. If you're not paying people and you're not making sure that they don't have legal risk, you're just getting your buddies to show up and have a beer and listen to you gripe about your company. But if you miss it, well, you know what, you don't really have to report to them. Can't really fire them, can't really make a decision and they end up being an advisory board. Having advisors around is good, it's healthy, it's nice. But most seasoned entrepreneurs and most seasoned CEO's have had boards and know how powerful they can be, including tempering you right, because you're at the head of this organization. Do I have the right idea or not? No one in your staff is going to speak truth, to power, the same as your board. And so having a good governing board is important. And so we were going through that because this guy is, he's got a clothing company, and he's doing fine, but he's sitting on the board of a beer company that his college roommate started 25 years ago, and this thing's about to crash. I mean, it's. Crash landing is inevitable. And why is this crash landing inevitable? Honestly, it's because the CEO, who isn't the friend, the friend stepped down to see about five, six years ago. The CEO just didn't report to the board what he was doing, made some bad moves, and then got in a tailspin of financial. He thought everything was going to be great always. And if everything was great always, he would have been fine. But then he wasn't. And by the time the board learned of all this, the answer is, how do we wind this thing down? Ethically not, how do we get out of this tailspin? I'm talking to my buddy Mike about this. And I said, well, Mike, are you being compensated? No, im just doing this as a thing to my friend. I said, well, if you were being compensated, especially with equity, would you have been pushing that CEO for that information three years ago? Would you have been mad the first time he missed sending it to you? [00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:15] Speaker C: What are the other reasons youre not involved? Well, maybe theres some legal stuff. I dont know, Brad. Maybe ive got some problems, like maybe I dont really want to be on this board. I said, well, okay, thats because they didnt indemnify you. Indemnification basically means if you get brought into a lawsuit on the company's behalf, the company will pay your way. So if I'm on Rob's board and ends up being $1,000, judgment and maybe I have to pay $1,000. Well, the indemnification is the company would then write that check. But the third thing is DNO insurance, which is called directors and officers insurance. And this is exactly for that same reason. This pays for my legal bills. If I get drug in. Well, if I don't have those three things, if I'm not being compensated, if I have legal exposure, money exposure, maybe. And you don't have, and you don't have lawyers prepaid on my behalf through an insurance policy, I'm going to act like this is a nonprofit advisory role. It's going to kind of hang out, do my bit. So I was chewing on that, and I kind of just wanted to say it to the people on the pod say, how do you get along with your board? What do you do with them? But really, that's the starting line. Is it an advisory board or governing board? On the governing board side, I could probably talk for 2 hours about my experience and things I think are cool. And I would like to. Honestly, I like the work. I'd like to do more of it. But the real thing to remember about the governing side of the board is you are a proxy vote for all the people who put you on the board, and that's your shareholders. And Rob, you're in a public company. Most of the companies I work for have discrete classes. Common, preferred. [00:13:47] Speaker D: Preferred. [00:13:47] Speaker C: Be venture capital or whatever. You just really, your job is not to win. Your job is not to be the smartest person in the room. Your job is to protect the shareholders. [00:13:56] Speaker D: And what they desire. [00:13:57] Speaker C: And usually what they desire is a return on investment. Sometimes for a b corp or triple bottom line corp, you can have other desires as well. But that's something I truly enjoy doing, is saying, I'm not here just for me. I'm here on behalf of multiple. And my job is to make the multiple people better, their lives better. So that's my rants about boards. Rob, do you have any questions or thoughts, or can I move to my idea about dads? [00:14:20] Speaker A: Well, I think the one thought, because where I can connect the brainwriting that I'm doing to what you're talking about with boards, and I think this is important for any CEO, any high level person working in business. What it comes down to is, and there's research on this, but individuals make both the best decisions and ideas, and the worst. And collective intelligence tends to get you somewhere in the middle. And so with. Whether it's how you design your board or your advisory board, or how you do brainwriting, or how you collect ideas, the idea is to let the very best individual ideas come to the rise to the top, but protect you against the really bad ideas. Because as individuals, when we're in our own head, we're actually pretty good at making really great ideas. We're actually a little bit better than being collective, than collective intelligence, because we tend to think clearly, we tend to think uniquely, but also we tend to have some really, really real stinkers, some real shit ideas, some real bad. [00:15:22] Speaker C: We love them. We got great cognitive bias to blanket us in. This warm feeling of this idea of mine is good because it's my idea. [00:15:29] Speaker A: And it turns out it's horrible. And so that's what you want the board for? That's what you want brainwriting for. That's where you want to bring in your employees or the people who work for you. You want them to show your blind areas, and then you want to take individual ideas and not dilute them by making them a muddled, brainstormed mess. But you want to be able to talk about the individual ideas and elevate them and say, no, no, that really is a good one. So I think that's great. But tell me about what you have in mind for a dad board. [00:15:56] Speaker C: So I'll go one more thing than the dad board. But the smartest people I know do not mind at all defending their decisions. In fact, they like that refining process because they know the magnitude of their decisions. I just. Working with a company and 700 employees, 70 locations, had a pretty big riff earlier in the year. And the CEO, the reason he calls me is just to defend his decisions before he goes into his board meetings. He doesn't mind if they beat him up, doesn't mind at all. Because if collectively, him and the board, starting with him, and then the board, if they mess up, they'll have another riff, and hundreds of people lose their jobs, and thousands of customers will have to go to an inferior source because a really good company, they've got the stats on that. But being a really good company and offering a good service is not the same thing as having good cash flow. So defend, defend, defend, defend your arguments. And if for no other reason than because you've got cognitive bias rolling around in your mind. So I was thinking through this, and I was thinking about dad boards, and could we have a group of people that actually have the same feeling as a governing board to keep me from screwing up? And I'm not as interested in somebody coming in and telling me what to do, which good boards don't do that, or somebody coming along with a really good idea. Hey, Brad. The magic way to get your kid to stop snoring, you know, do teething better magic, you know, potion for the relationship. Not really looking for good. I'm looking for what you said is downside risk. Can I get a group of guys together who are invested enough in me being the dad that I can be, or just really the not screwing up dad, and we'll have him on the pot of talking about a lot. My best friend, Mel is that to me in a lot of ways, because his son's six years old, and he's the godfather of my son, but that's about him helping Theo out. How do I get a board? A dad board. That's not an advisory board. Not a, hey, we talk sometimes, and sometimes some dad wisdom gets thrown around and that's kind of neat. And this came up from a bunch of reasons, but mostly because of this board work I was doing. But the second place that it came up from is we had a big power outage two weeks ago and we didn't have power for 10 hours and it was cold. And eventually Sara Beth said, we need to go to somebody else's house, maybe stay the night. [00:18:21] Speaker D: Fine. [00:18:22] Speaker C: I'm then talking to the dad who lives right next door about what he was doing. He said he had to take the day off work and they were super nervous and they were thinking about renting a hotel room for the night. I thought he should have had smart friends take him in. Sara Beth and I have ten people in Boulder county within 20 minutes of here who would have taken us in, and he doesn't have that. We do. But that's like the advisory board. That's the people who can help out when you need good stuff. What is the governing board for me as a father that I can't hide from, I need to report into will take me to the woodshed with authority when I need it or. I told the wood chipper by I was coaching a guy, he's like, Brad, you took me to the wood chipper today a lot harder and a lot harsher, but a lot faster than the wood chip. So that was my idea. I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet, but it was a neat idea and I want to share it here on the pod. [00:19:18] Speaker A: Yeah. I think a lot of people's answer to who the board is, is mom. She'll take you to the wood chipper and she'll tell you exactly where you're screwing up. [00:19:29] Speaker C: True, and a loving sometimes, but I. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Think you're onto something there, which is how do we create. It's exactly what we're talking about. How do we stop ourselves from making the dumb choices? It's not about trying to make our choices better. How do we stop ourselves from having the bad ideas and how do we build support structures around ourselves? And I mean, that's what we're trying to do with this podcast, right, is how do you build support structures around dads who want to do this stuff? And we're all trying to figure it out and you know, I don't think we're reinventing the wheel here. No, but we're trying to figure it out and do the best we can. And it's hard. You know, there's a, there's a lot of something that's been on my mind. A lot is, there's a lot out there right now about kind of male lack of friendship and lack of support structures and things like that in kind of today's world. And so how do you combine those things? And I think there's something there. And if you're listening now and you've got ideas or you want a dad board, shoot us an email. Email [email protected]. And we'll workshop it. We'll see if we can figure something out. [00:20:29] Speaker C: Well, what we'll do is we'll collect them all. We'll anonymize them, we'll put them back out to everyone, and we'll see which ones rise to the top. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Exactly. Hi, Brad. Well, why don't we take a break? And when we come back, we're going to have our interview with Antony Franco. [00:20:51] Speaker D: Hello, everybody, and welcome back. We're so excited to have my good friend, multitime founder and CEO Anthony Franco as our interview today. And he's somebody I've known for many, many years. And there was a period of time where he and I were both pitching companies at angel pitch events, and we were both judging each other on the week back and forth. It was a great way to get to know somebody. And then that three week stint ended when we were on a panel together judging other people, and we laughed and laughed and laughed the whole time. So thank you so much for being here, Anthony. And, yeah, I'm going to hand it over to rob to start asking you some questions. Cool. [00:21:23] Speaker E: Glad to be here. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Thanks, Anthony. So let's kick it off with some rapid fire. First of all, uh, how many kids do you have and what ages are they? [00:21:33] Speaker E: Um, I have. I have, uh, two kids. [00:21:41] Speaker A: Think about that for a second. [00:21:42] Speaker E: They are. They are six and eight. [00:21:46] Speaker B: That's great. And what's your current title? [00:21:49] Speaker E: Yeah, I was told there would be no math. [00:21:52] Speaker B: No math. [00:21:54] Speaker D: It's tough. [00:21:56] Speaker B: It's, it's tough out here. [00:21:59] Speaker E: Next. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Next question involves no numbers. What's your title and role? [00:22:04] Speaker E: So that's another question where I'm going to need to pause on. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I don't really like, I take a title just because you're supposed to have one, but in reality, I build stuff. That's kind of what, that's my title and role. [00:22:23] Speaker B: All right, we got a little more math for you. How many companies have you helped build or been part of a kind of a leadership team on. [00:22:35] Speaker E: A dozen. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Dozen works. [00:22:41] Speaker E: I'm not asking, I'm telling it. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:22:43] Speaker E: Sure. [00:22:44] Speaker B: It doesn't. And then just take 2 seconds. We're getting to know you. I don't actually know you very well. Brad does give us the two minute pitch. Elevator pitch on Anthony Franco. What are you up to right now? What have you been up to? What's your career looked like so far? [00:22:59] Speaker E: I like how Brad describes me, a series of fancy words strung together. But yeah, I think I said it. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I have started six companies and I've sold five of them. So I've started and led twelve. But in reality some of those were just like side hustles that had an exit. So I've really started six legit companies. I've sold five so far, two to public companies. My current gig, I actually have two. One is MC Squares. It's best known. I was on Shark Tank and did a deal with Kevin O'Leary. That company quite frankly is struggling right now and I also have, and we can get into that if you want. And I also have started the consulting practice to help manufacturers and influencers and private equity build a direct to consumer channel. Very cool. [00:24:10] Speaker B: So you're big in the direct to consumer space. And if I understand right for MC Squares you were top seller on Amazon. [00:24:17] Speaker E: Yeah, we still are. So to dive a little bit in the trouble that we're in, we were growing very well and then we hit, we hit but we weren't revenue diverse. So we're a manufacturer that builds, we have patents and build really fun, unique office products. And we were exclusively focused on Amazon and selling through Amazon and had an issue on Amazon that really we had a 40 50% decline in revenue overnight and have been struggling to get out of it. Actually had to do a bunch of layoffs. Eventually we filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy and we're working through that now. Um, and we have a plan to come out of this the backside of it. Very healthy. But yeah, it's, right now it's kind of embracing the suck as we, as we work through the bankruptcy stuff. And yeah, happy to dive into that or, or just leave it there. [00:25:37] Speaker D: I think I'm going to switch a little bit to the family side, but incorporated with this. So I've helped multiple companies wind down or go through bankruptcy and I've also helped multiple companies grow. And there's a lot of stress that comes with either one on the person making the decisions, which in this case is you. How do you bring that home? How do you leave it away from home? How does that affect just you as a father? Because your daughters are old enough to understand dads having a bad day. What do you think about that? Or how do you process that? [00:26:06] Speaker E: Yeah, I kind of have a traditional perspective on this where it's my job as the dad and husband to insulate my family as much as I possibly can from the stress, you know, especially for my oldest, who thankfully is not going to watch this podcast, likely so I can share openly. [00:26:40] Speaker B: She's probably not our target demographic. [00:26:42] Speaker E: Yeah, probably. [00:26:43] Speaker D: Well, we're always wondering about that with, like, crass jokes and swearing because this is supposed to be family friendly, but it's kind of for dads. And if we're, if we're faking who we are on this by not telling the truth, but then maybe we can maybe just get away with it because none of the other people who will get us in trouble will listen to this. That's our hope. Okay. [00:27:03] Speaker E: So for my oldest, she might. She's eventually going to be our target. She's also a builder entrepreneur. She comes to the shop with me and actually operates the heavy equipment and assembles product for us and just loves the factory and I, you know, I. And loves the people that work in the factory, like, has friendships with them. And so there, what, there is a. There was a point where I had to kind of expose to her that the factory's going away and the people that she loves are finding other jobs. And that was, that was really hard for her. She identifies her dad as, like, she. She said she wanted to work at the factory when she graduated college. Right. So there's only so much you can insulate the truth from your kids. Right? So I try to insulate the stress, but not the. The facts of what's happening. And also, I think it's an opportunity to also work through disappointment with my, with my daughter, both of my daughters and my wife, and, and work through them how you handle this and how do you come out stronger on the other side. So trying to take this as a teachable moment for her and for me, but, yeah. So, again, the stress part of it is on my shoulders, nobody else's. Yeah. [00:28:30] Speaker B: And how do you think about that when it comes to. So you've got a six and an eight year old and you're a constant builder. Right. So when you, when you entered your father, her journey six, eight years ago, did you, were you still kind of an entrepreneur? Were you running your own things? Was it pretty uncertain, like, could things, you know? I know I live a life where, like, I don't know, I'm always worried that the company's going to go under before the next paycheck arrives. [00:28:53] Speaker E: Yeah. So I've been fortunate to have a couple of really good exits, and so I would say life hasn't been as uncertain as it is right now. So the uncertainty is a new thing, um, for my family, I should say financial uncertainty. Right. Company uncertainty is. Is a constant. Where you are, where you're going, what's happening. Um, what the hell am I doing? Like, all of those things are a constant. As an entrepreneur. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah. We're constantly trying to battle all of these unknowns and battle through kind of whatever new challenge pops up. So, with your daughters in particular, do you, do you frame yourself as dad, the entrepreneur? Do you, do you kind of give yourself that title? Do they know you as that? Do they know that you run companies? Does that, does that kind of impress upon them? [00:29:46] Speaker E: Yeah, I wouldn't say so. You say they're not impressed with it, but they know what I do. [00:29:55] Speaker D: Are they impressed with it by me? [00:29:57] Speaker E: Yeah, it's like, you know, I get the, oh, dad, you get the eye roll. Yeah, it's whatever, dad. Yeah, it's funny. I can manage a very large team and get a very large team streaming in the same direction and working on the same things, but I can't get my kids out to school on time with my wife, so it's like, it's this weird dichotomy of being a leader and having no control at home. [00:30:26] Speaker D: We actually, this is our third interview, but, of course, Rob and I have been interviewing each other for over a dozen now, and we. This is a constant thing. It's okay. I know how to be in charge of a large group of people with servant leadership mind. Right. It's my job to help everyone go the right direction, and I do that constantly for me and my coaching and all sorts of. And then you're at home, and it's like, well, it, you know, best case scenario, it's chaos. Second best case scenario is I'm not in charge. [00:30:54] Speaker E: Yeah. Neither of you guys have. You guys. I mean, you guys have young, young ones, right? So there is something super humbling about your kid asking you to wipe their ass like that. You haven't experienced that yet. It is coming and you realize, okay, so I really have. This is not the life I imagined when becoming a big shot. Right? [00:31:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:25] Speaker B: My dad tells the story. He had an exit of his own, and he talks about kind of like, we were in Denver at the time. I was too young to understand, but he talks about kind of walking down the street in Denver, like, going to some meeting after the fact, feeling like a big shot and just like, getting a bird to poop right on his head. And he's like, oh, yeah. You know, like. [00:31:45] Speaker E: Life is a great equalizer no matter where. Yeah, yeah. No matter where you're at. [00:31:50] Speaker D: I mean, it's a little bit better, I guess, because my exit was, I spent the entire night, literally the entire night, copying HR files because one of our people had an intent to sue and we wouldn't own those files after 06:00 a.m. The next day. So my exit was a little bit different. But anyway, another story. Yeah. The bitter with the sweet. Sorry, Rob, you're going to ask another question. [00:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I just wanted to dive in because I'm sure a lot of our audience kind of heard the term shark. Shark Tank come up, and they want to hear more about that. So can you tell us just a little bit about what that experience was like? You know, and, you know, on top of that, did your kids see you on tv? Was that fun? Did that register? [00:32:29] Speaker E: We as a family used to watch shark tank every night, and. And I tried out six times to get on shark Tank, and the fifth time I was turned down, I looked at my wife. I remember the moment I looked my wife dead in the eye and I said, I'm gonna be on shark Tank. And she looked at me as though I was batshit crazy. [00:32:58] Speaker D: Again. Again. [00:33:02] Speaker E: You're right, which is a normal Tuesday. And, you know, I tried harder and finagled my way in, and it was the most intensely anxious and fun moment of my life. It wasn't the best moment in my life, but it was the most anxiety written ridden, combined with an extreme amount of fun. And what did it, for the record. [00:33:44] Speaker B: What did it take to get to that next level? Like, what did you have to double down on as an entrepreneur to kind of go from the fifth, between the. [00:33:50] Speaker E: Fifth and 6th interview, a recognition that how much story mattered to the producers like this. I thought my business mattered. I thought, you know, what I was building was really cool, and really what they cared most about was the story of the entrepreneur, which is uncomfortable for me to talk about myself. But until I did that, you know, I basically watched all the shark take episodes again and said, okay, so my story is going to matter more than anything else. So I kind of got over myself, you know? You know, that that phrase don't be so humble. You're not that great. So I, I tried to, I tried to not be as humble and talk about myself a little bit. And that's what really got me over and kind of was the underscoring theme of the episode was this nerdy kid from high school that barely graduated. Could he spend all of his time in the computer lab now helping people collaborate? That was the underlying theme of the whole episode. [00:35:04] Speaker B: That's cool. And I know that's something Brad and I have been working on is part of our exercise in doing this is trying to get over ourselves. And, you know, it takes a little bit of practice to go and talk about yourself because, I don't know, we're not that great, but we got some stories to share and we want to get out there and so we're trying to make it fun, but that's really, that's really cool. So what was it like, the watch party? [00:35:28] Speaker E: So the watch party was not fun for me. And the reason why was, you know, I'm on the website and answering questions and, like, so we had, our whole team was, was in the, in the process of working the business while we were airing because you get this, you get inundated with traffic. So I didn't get to enjoy it with my kids like I wanted to. It was still fun to see them watch it and, like, just be enthralled with it. But I, a week later, we got to sit down and actually enjoy the recording together. And that was way more of a moment for me in the family rather than the actual air, the air time, the showtime. [00:36:15] Speaker D: We find this to be consistent, like so many of the things from our perspective in the leadership or how does this matter? Strategically just takes away the wins. The most common one is when youre raising capital and everyone thinks the raising of the capital is the big win. And I had a guy one time, really tough series a, and he was out in Boston and I was really proud of him. The money had come in, everything had happened. And hes texting me, he says, brad, this is great. It feels really good. I feel like were going to hit profitability with this. The companys going great. Congratulations. Go for a run. I'm proud of you. Five minutes go by and he goes, hey, I'm worried about our series B metrics. That's all the time he got in his own mind, in his own personhood to truly celebrate a milestone, which was five minutes. And then we start thinking about the next thing in yours. It was reverse. It was negative 3 hours before show, you're already, are we going to be able to handle the traffic? Are we going to be able to handle, take this momentum that we are getting, we earned through six tries, take this momentum and use it anyway. It's a common, common phenomenon. [00:37:21] Speaker E: I saw this post on LinkedIn just like two days ago, and I commented on it where this influencer with hundreds of thousands of followers said, if you're a really good employee, you should, you need to think. And I wish I remembered his name, but he blocked me after my comment. So I can't, I can't even look at the post anymore. [00:37:44] Speaker D: But dumb dumbo, I think it was dumb Dumbo or Eugene. [00:37:50] Speaker E: He, he said, he said, if you're really good employee, then you should go be an entrepreneur, because if you can crush it for somebody else, you can crush it for yourself. And I said, that is the most horrifically irresponsible advice you could give anybody. And it's just for this exact reason. It's because there's structure, there's the ability to, as an employee, you can take no action and still be successful. And that's not a slight. Like, being an employee is normal. Like, I applaud. I applaud people that can take and hold a regular job. Like, that is amazing. I like, and if you can do that and live a happy life doing that, you should do that, because becoming an entrepreneur requires, like, you need to be broken in a fundamental way. You need to be very broken. And so this is one aspect of it that people don't recognize. It's like, you can't celebrate the wins and you certainly can't share. You can't share. You certainly can't share. But also, in the losses, you can't maul the losses you have to get. I give myself on a really big loss. Like, when I filed bankruptcy for MC Squares, I gave myself a day to binge watch Netflix and just, like, pity myself in my situation. And then it was like, all right, what are we going to, like, boot steps up? What are we going to do next? How are we going to solve this? [00:39:28] Speaker D: And remember, I was doing an interview with an entrepreneur. It was ten years ago, and he was a drinking buddy when I was in grad school. And so I just, I knew he had a little company, so I chatted with him about it. Turns out his little company is actually more than a little company started. It's the classic thing, right? Started it out of his dorm room, and then at that point in time, had like, 75 employees. And he's a great guy. And I remember asking him just questions that I thought you should ask entrepreneurs. And one of the questions I asked him is like, okay, along the way, Nate, along the way, from zero to 75 employees, what was your biggest failure? And he goes, oh, hmm. Kind of scratches his head. And then we didn't really have an answer, so I asked him the next question. About three weeks later, we're out having a drink, and he goes, Brad, I still can't answer the question. Which I replied, what question? I didn't remember. He goes, I still don't know what my biggest failure was. What's going on? All right, Nate. I said, well, Nate, let's reframe it. What's the time? Everything went to shit. And he learned a lot. Oh, well, yesterday. Yeah. [00:40:27] Speaker C: And I really think. [00:40:28] Speaker E: Exactly right. [00:40:29] Speaker D: Yeah. And, and so I guess the question I'll ask you from that is, how much of that do you think is you? And how much of that is you have enough scars on your back that being whipped again doesn't hurt as much? [00:40:39] Speaker E: Well, I don't think there's any, like, God given, like, ability that I have to get over stuff quickly. I think it is just experience. And I think it's optimism flipped on its head. I think, like, entrepreneurs have this really weird, like, bipolar personality where they're eternal optimist, but always looking over their shoulder, paranoid that something's going to go wrong. And so I have, this is, this, again, this is what makes me broken. Right? I have this weird confidence that no matter what it's thrown at me, I'm going to find a way through it. And that, that no matter how bad things get, I'm still, I will always be grateful for what I have. So no matter how bad things get, it's not bad enough to where life still isn't good. And that's a, that is a very privileged position to be in. It's, it's very. But it's not, it's not, it's not because of my material things. If you look at most people that work with their hands every day, that are doing low paying jobs or high labor jobs, they view life in the same way. And so I always remind myself that people that don't have a lot are generally much happier than people that have a lot. And that's just because they're able to be grateful for the things that they do have, and not gratitude is the master key to happiness. And so I think that I'm able to get through stuff, one, because of my scar tissue, and two, just because of my frame of reference of what matters. [00:42:49] Speaker D: Brian, thank you. Thank you for sharing. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I appreciate the vulnerability, and I think that it's similar, but it reminds me of a quote, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you who said it, but basically that courage isn't the absence of fear, it's having fear and taking action anyway. And I think what you said should resonate with a lot of business leaders and entrepreneurs. And anyone considering entrepreneurship is as entrepreneurs, we're not, not scared of failure. We're not happy all the time. It's very miserable. It's very lonely. It's very scary, but you move forward anyway. And I think that that's a powerful mindset to take. And it sounds like you've adopted that. [00:43:32] Speaker D: Jeff. [00:43:33] Speaker E: Yeah. I was asked a question once on another at another. Like, I was in a panel discussion, and the host asked me, what keeps you up at night? And it took me a while to, like, absorb the question, and I, and I said, sleeping well is what keeps me up at night. He looked at me like, what? I'm like, if I'm not worried about something, then I'm missing something. So if I think everything's okay, and it's not just that, that's true, but also I think there's this, like, Murphy's law aspect to it. Literally three weeks before the algorithmic issue with Amazon that we experienced, I looked at my number two, Ian, and I said, hey, dude, we've made it. We're finally here. [00:44:27] Speaker C: Evo. [00:44:28] Speaker D: No, Ian's also known as Evo. [00:44:31] Speaker E: And Ian was like, yeah, I think things were going good. We were climbing. We had our best month ever. And I'm like, dude, we've made it. And three weeks later, Amazon experienced a technical issue that caused us half of our revenue for nearly two years. So I don't know what the point of that was, but other than being rooted in that paranoia, really does have some, from my experience, very practical, not practical application. [00:45:07] Speaker D: Another CEO that I know, and he's got a, he took over a bank, right? So old school took it over, and it was about, I've been coaching him for three and a half years now. And he finally started going to actual counseling because coaches are not counselors. And he finally met somebody who could handle somebody who's gifted and talented, an iq and an ability set of his. And she started helping him go through stuff, and she helped him identify his superpower. Just life superpower, everything. And his life superpower is being uncomfortable. He's just way more so identify with that. I was thinking, oh, my God, I. [00:45:42] Speaker E: So identify with that. [00:45:44] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:45:44] Speaker E: My favorite phrase from. From. From my church, flatirons, is success and comfort are not compatible. [00:45:51] Speaker D: It's interesting. [00:45:53] Speaker E: I love that phrase. [00:45:54] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:45:55] Speaker C: And. [00:45:56] Speaker D: And it's okay. [00:45:57] Speaker C: I mean, Rob is. [00:45:58] Speaker D: Is a heck of an athlete, and he knows how to not be comfortable. And one of the things he's finding in his journey, and I'll let you speak to this a little bit more, is he usually has athletic endeavors in front of him, but he knows that the. The chop wood, carry water work of being a young dad, a dad to a young kid, is going to take away his ability to hit a high athletic. So he had to be uncomfortable and choose a new athletic standard, which is just try to get on the bike instead of try to achieve. Um, so, yeah, I think that'll probably be nearly universal for the people on this podcast. Uh, Rob, I kept telling you I'd let you take all the talking on this one, but Anthony's saying good stuff that I know. [00:46:34] Speaker B: No, this is great. And I want to dig into that more because I think that. I think about my athletic career, and I think about, like, people who aren't athletes, they'll go for a run, and they're like, this hurts. It's miserable. And then you look at a marathon runner and they go, this hurts. [00:46:49] Speaker D: It's awesome. [00:46:51] Speaker E: Yes. [00:46:52] Speaker B: And it's. And it's something about the scars on your back or the building up of some endurance. And I think it translates both in business and in athletics, that once you've built up a certain amount of that endurance, the pain gets fun. And it's like, yeah, I like, I'm comfortable in this pain. I'm comfortable in the building and the uncertainty. [00:47:15] Speaker E: What's the joke that's popping in my head is this guy's beating himself in the head with the brick, and another guy walks over, and, why are you beating yourself in the head with the brick? And he's like, because it feels so good when I stop. That's exactly how it feels. [00:47:35] Speaker A: So. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Well, let's dig into that, then. Do you think you'll ever stop? I mean, you're dealing with a bankruptcy right now. That's got to be painful. It's got to feel. [00:47:42] Speaker E: Ask that question as though it's a choice. I don't know any, like, so if you know when it comes, is there some point at which you're going to stop breathing? Well, yeah, but not by choice, not because I want to. [00:48:01] Speaker D: It's the same thing, my friend. Andrew Rodriguez, also CEO. And he said this to me. I was coaching him and kind of some of the same stuff like, what's the end date? What's the terminal, really? Because I was trying to make him not think in terms of 50 million, 100 million, $500 million exits. Right. I like to bring people down to what is substantial enough. But anyway, I asked a question wrong, and he just replies me, Brad, entrepreneurship is a disease from which there is no cure, only management techniques. You can manage the disease. Hey, let me start companies that have a high, high likelihood of success, and that success is economic and life. Let me not start companies just because I thought of something at two in the morning and I went down and started working on it. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Well, ill ask you a different question then, because bringing it back to your fatherhood journey, as you look at your daughters, you know, you talked about your one daughter loving to be in the factory and things like that. Do you think that they'll, one, do you think they'll follow in your footsteps? And two, like, is this a life that you would be happy for them to live? [00:48:59] Speaker E: That's a great question. I care very deeply about my kids being happy, so it will be about encouraging them to follow a passion and having them question. So I think inherently in our family, we question an authority, which is somewhat of a trade of an entrepreneur. So I guess I'm fostering the entrepreneurial traits you're making me think about, like, am I doing them a disservice? Like, am I being a bad dad? Right. By doing that for sure? I don't know. [00:49:38] Speaker D: Absolutely. [00:49:38] Speaker E: You are. Yeah. [00:49:41] Speaker B: I disagree. I think. I think you're being, I think it's so good, right? Cause I think that it's what we've been talking about, right? Like, I think about it, I mean, I'm one month into this. Do I want Arthur to be happy? Yes. But then I think about what makes people happy. [00:49:55] Speaker E: There it is. Bingo. [00:49:57] Speaker B: And I think, like, for me, I always frame it in terms of building. I think building makes a lot of human beings happy. And I think a lot of human beings, even if they make a lot of money, I have a lot of friends who are lawyers and stuff, and theyre not building, even though theyre successful. And I think theyre not very happy. And my kind of pet theory is, if youre not building something, something might be missing, at least for some of us with this entrepreneurial disease. And so I think about, with my son, I havent had a chance to teach him anything yet, but I think about teaching him how to build and question and do the next thing, take the next step. [00:50:31] Speaker E: Yeah. Is ignorance bliss, though? Like, is ignorance kind of bliss in this. In this circumstance? I don't. I don't know. Like, once you've experienced it and seen a little bit of success, it's a lot like golf. Like, once you hit that one shot, and I suck at golf, but I have that one shot that's in the back of my head that keeps me, like, I'll even. Somebody ask me to go, I'm like, yeah, I'll go. Um, because of, like, you, you've been exposed to the. Exposed to it enough, and you, you're no longer ignorant about it. Therefore, it's like, you catch it and you can't get rid of it. I just don't. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I'll encourage it with my daughters, other than who I can't remember. I think it was Jim Carrey that talked about, and you guys might know this story that talked about his dad. And his dad gave up his pursuit of what he loved to do. And I think he was a musician, and I might be getting all this messed up. And he gave up being a musician to go be an accountant or something. And after 20 years, he was fired. And what he said about his dad was, I decided that if I was going to fail, I was going to fail at something I loved to do rather than fail at something that I compromised to do, because there's no guarantees that your compromise is going to work out either. And so that thread of truth is something that I think would be a positive thing to pass on to my kids. [00:52:12] Speaker D: There's also something like how much we can control in life. I think there's some cognitive bias in society about that. And I know this because I'll talk to family members and say, Brad, how do you handle being an entrepreneur? You don't know what you're going to make next month. And yet on the same time, they believe I'm successful without seeing my P and L. Right. They have this indelible belief that I'm successful. But they say, how do you handle the stress of it? And I say, how do you handle the stress of yours? You have no idea about the macro forces that are affecting whether you keep your job or not. And I think some of it is just, well, I have my job. [00:52:45] Speaker E: That's the evil thing. That's an evil thing to tell somebody. [00:52:49] Speaker D: I shouldn't let people know this. [00:52:51] Speaker E: No. [00:52:51] Speaker D: If you're a good employee. Stay in your job. Don't be an entrepreneur. Oh, canceled? Yeah. I just think that some of it is risk assessment and comfortability, but others, I think people have a big cognitive bias as to what risk is in their employment and their careers, and the biggest risk is letting someone else determine it for you. One of the many, many quotes that I either made up, stole from my mom, or can't remember is you get to define normal in your life, but if you don't, someone else will. And I really try and try and keep that. Okay. What is normal in my life? I wake up every morning, fifth of Jack Daniels, go for a run, do this podcast. That's my morning, in case anyone wants to know. [00:53:33] Speaker B: Breakfast of champions. [00:53:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:35] Speaker D: Breakfast. Oh, God. Okay, I want to go a little bit back. This fatherhood stuff is working pretty well. But because we're young and stupid in our fatherhood journeys, I know that when I started entrepreneurship, I learned a lot of things about entrepreneurship that made no sense till I was there. And on your fatherhood journey, what are some of the things that either you were just. Your brain was wrong on or that surprised you or that was novel that you never heard anywhere else before? Because a real purpose of this podcast is, Rob and I couldn't find that information out and about. And we could call friends. I could call you, but just. Yeah. What was a surprise for you or a novel thing? [00:54:15] Speaker E: There's a couple of things. One, my wife and I took this, the parenting class called interkinetics, and I think more for my wife than for me. What was surprising for her was that your kids are not made in the image of you. [00:54:32] Speaker D: Okay? [00:54:33] Speaker E: And because they're not like you doesn't mean there's something wrong with them. And so there is a piece at which you have to let your kids explore their strengths. And trying to force your strengths on them, um, is a recipe for. For unhappiness. It's a recipe for. For. For kids thinking they're not good. Your kids thinking they're not good enough for some reason, because they're not like their mom or dad. Um, the other thing that. That, um, I have discovered and have noticed is all great parent parents, all really great parents think they're doing a shitty job at being a parent, and all really bad parents think, I've got this covered. So, if you're. Listen, it's a lot like entrepreneurship. [00:55:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:55:32] Speaker E: If you feel like you're not exactly like being a CEO, you're probably. You're probably on the right track, right? You're gonna make mistakes. Think about all the mistakes your parents made. Uh, you turned out all right, relatively speaking. So. So just kind of embrace that. Um, and just know that, you know, your. Your kid isn't you. They're this independent individual that you're in charge, you've been put in charge of, and you can. You can only do the best that you can. Um, uh, the other thing is time. Like, the most valuable thing you can give your kids, any other than anything else, is time. That's it. [00:56:19] Speaker B: There's never enough time. [00:56:22] Speaker D: Well, that's. [00:56:22] Speaker B: Especially when you're entrepreneur. [00:56:24] Speaker D: Yeah, that's the follow up question is, how do you. Because time will be eaten away. Another phrase rob and I use here is, you know, if you want to know what other people think your priority list is, take a look at your inbox and your calendar. [00:56:39] Speaker C: Your calendar, yeah. [00:56:40] Speaker D: And the only thing I calendar to. [00:56:41] Speaker E: Your checkbook or your bank account, where. Where are you spending money and where are you spending your time? That's what. That's what your priority is. Period. [00:56:49] Speaker D: And priority. I meant to say this last week, Rob, so now I could say it now. So, evidently, the word priority, singular was coined in, like, the 16 hundreds, but the plural wasn't coined until the middle of the industrial revolution, like, 1900. In other words, you either had a priority or you didn't. Like, 300 years. [00:57:08] Speaker E: That so makes sense. [00:57:10] Speaker D: So the only time I ever. I don't like using military language and leadership or business training. I don't like using fight language. I think it's a false narrative and stuff, except for one thing, which is you fight for your priorities. And so that's what you were saying with your checkbook and your calendar, and I love that. How do you fight for your priority? And what I think you just said is the time with the kids is the priority. And of course, you don't have that if you don't have income, and you don't have that if you don't have stability. And you don't have that if you not building something, creating what you need to do, that if you're not taking care of your own health. Right. But how do you fight for that priority? [00:57:44] Speaker E: Well, yeah, so, um, there's. There's. There's always too much of something, right? Um, broccoli is really good for you. Unless that's all you eat and you overeat it, like, so. Time with your dad, probably. I would put that in the same bucket. You have to set an example. When I can't do something with my kids, it's and I give them a reason, because I have this thing called work, and here's what work does. I'm far from a perfect parent. Like, very far from a perfect parent. But one thing I do know is that I'm doing the very best I can to live an example of what I would want them to have in a husband or how would I would want them to have for themselves and who they want to be. So time is not just about, like, time on a clock, which is important. It's also just like, just being in the same room. It doesn't even need to be like, you know, they. People talk about quality time. It's like, no, just being there in the room is just as important as the quality time, in my opinion. [00:58:57] Speaker B: Who knows? [00:58:58] Speaker E: I could be totally wrong. Maybe maybe 15 dedicated minutes of playing chutes and ladders with them is all I really need to do. But I'm winging it. So I don't know. [00:59:12] Speaker B: I think we all are. That's what we're all trying to gauge what's going on. But I did want to ask something there, which is when you tell, what do you tell them that work is right? Why do you tell them it's important? Like, hey, I got to do this work? Is it because I'm obliged to my. To employees? Because it's important that dad does this because he likes it. Is it important that dad does it because it brings in money? Do you have something you tell them? [00:59:34] Speaker E: Actually, no, I haven't explained. That's a great question. I have not had. So if I were to. If they were to ask me that question, why do you work? It would be all of those things. But also, I think purpose. I think having a purpose, a place to contribute, is incredibly important for happiness and longevity. So I would talk about that and talk about purpose and income and my responsibilities as a dad and to the family. So it would be all of those things, Jeff? [01:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great, because I think a lot about that. How would I explain to my son that I need to leave him? And, you know, I think it's easy to get caught in the trap of, well, dad needs to go because we got to get make money. But that's the easy answer. But I think sometimes telling them that deeper answer of, you know, dad cares about this, and it's important that dad goes and does and does things that he cares about, because that's important in life. So I'm kind of. [01:00:37] Speaker E: I've already nothing wrong with. Because I got to pay for those. I got to pay for your food. See, the house that we live in, like, if I don't go to work, we don't have this house. And I know it's a bad word, but teaching capitalistic principles to your kids, I think, is perfectly fine. [01:00:53] Speaker B: And I don't think personal finance and understanding absolutely what it means to, like, make money and have a balance sheet and pay a mortgage and all those. [01:01:02] Speaker C: Things, Jeff, and not be scared of that. [01:01:04] Speaker D: Not be scared of that because I was scared of it. From a scarcity perspective, there isn't enough of this emotional thing that we. That my parents labeled as money. And then there was a scarcity of things in the house. There was too much of fear and not enough of just, well, money is a tool set, and it's valuable and it's important, and so is tying your shoes and looking both ways across the street. It's just a thing. But I really liked, and I will take away from this, Anthony, for the rest of my fatherhood journey, is that describing work as a purpose is something I will do forever now. Also money, also awards, also the ability to change things, but really, it's the purpose behind it, which is why it's glorious but also addictive. And I need to balance those two. But the reasoning can give to him. So thank you for that. That'll be a big takeaway for me, Trey. [01:02:01] Speaker B: So, as we get towards the end of the time, Anthony, we really appreciate you being here. Anything else you know, in your journey you want to dive into before we kind of wrap up with a couple of last questions? [01:02:11] Speaker E: No, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead. And nothing's come to the top of my head, so we could jump into your questions. [01:02:16] Speaker B: Yeah, no worries. So is there anything, you know, in all the companies you've worked in, things like that? Is there anything that you've seen, like an employee or co founder do as a parent that was kind of non obvious, but. Or that worked well for their work life balance? [01:02:32] Speaker E: And I've got a lot of amazing examples of things that I've learned from other people and watching them do it. So my father in law, also an entrepreneur, runs a business, and I really look up to him because he has this insane work ethic. He works a lot, but his kids never once thought that they weren't the priority. Even though he spent a lot of time at work and spent a lot of time building his business, his kids just know that they're the center of his world, and that can be accomplished in all kinds of different ways. One of the things he did, no matter what. Like, the reason. Part of the reason why he's an entrepreneur is because he set a goal. I would never miss one of my kids games, ever. And I've heard that I've been married to Shauna 13 plus years. [01:03:41] Speaker D: Not a math question. [01:03:44] Speaker E: I've heard that story a lot, that my dad never missed a game. Um, so, yeah, I guess my. My example would be, however that manifests, your kids need to believe that they're. They're the priority in your life. [01:04:05] Speaker B: And then, you know, as you've kind of been an entrepreneur your whole career, and as you transition, transitioned into an entrepreneur who's also a father, are there any ways you've changed how you work? [01:04:17] Speaker E: It's more about parenting for me, is more about my free time rather than my work time. So, way I've changed that I've worked, there's more pressure. When it was just me and Shawna, if things didn't work out, we could downsize pretty easily. Much harder with kids, much harder with roots that your kids are starting to establish. So I would say that the pressure to maintain my kids lifestyle maybe has made me a little more cautious. I'm trying to think if there's anything else, but I would say that would. [01:05:06] Speaker D: Be the caution is a pro or a con in your future state in business and leadership, being more cautious because you've got this downside risk floor. [01:05:18] Speaker E: Yes. [01:05:21] Speaker D: I love you. Well, we'll let you write the right and post it for us. This is what I meant by yes. 2000 words by Anthony Frank, co written by Jackson. All right, I'll move on to question what is one resource you wish you'd had earlier in your fatherhood journey? One thing people should go out and buy. Listen to. Just like, this is great. Get it? I wish I'd had it earlier. [01:05:50] Speaker E: Other dads. [01:05:51] Speaker D: Other dads. [01:05:52] Speaker E: Other dads. Yeah. So my wife is the social engineer of the family, and if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have any, like, dad friends, guys that I would hang out with. And so she's. And I. And I'm starting to recognize how important those having dads in similar situations, similar age groups, similar value systems has been to being a better dad. Like Nate, one of my dad friends, just an amazing dad with his kids and. And how he coaches them in their athletics. And I'm like, wow, I really look up to that and I have something to aspire to. And I have a half a dozen dads like that that I look at how they do stuff and I'm like, I'm going to modify how I do it based on what I'm seeing, how I'm seeing them interact with their kids. So being purposeful and mindful about who you hang out with and therefore who your kids wind up. Who's, whose kids your kids wind up hanging out with is probably the most. More than how you're a dad. Who your kids hang out with is probably a more impactful piece of their life than anything else. [01:07:28] Speaker B: I've heard that a lot. I'm in the UK, but I'm always from the US, and I've got a colleague who's also English, who raised kids in the US. And everyone asks where they got their accents or who won, dad or mom. He's like, it doesn't matter. It's who they hang out with that's going to dictate all that stuff, and that's just a small microcosm for, for all the rest of it. You know, they learn from that. All that time, they're out of the house doing other things with other people. [01:07:56] Speaker E: Exactly right. Exactly right. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Well, to take us to the end here, uh, there's something we do on each of these podcasts, which is talk about our wins and fails. And Brad and I usually do it kind of at. At the end of each week. So what was our dad win for the week? Uh, and what was our dad fail for the week? And wins can be, you know, you got a smile or a hug. Fails could be, you know, left the diapers at home or got pooped on. So we figured we'd give you an opportunity to share yours as well. And you can take from the last week, or you could take from your whole journey as a father, kind of. What are the big wins and what are the big fails? [01:08:31] Speaker E: The thing that's popping in my mind is something that happened just this morning, and it's both a win and a fail, of course. Perfect. So my daughter's school, my six year old, Vivian, they earned a reward in class, and the reward was, they're going to have a doctor seuss day today in their school. And we've been in charge of making green eggs and ham. And so last night, I ordered a bunch of spam and food coloring and soaked the spam overnight in juice and green food coloring, and is the most brilliant green ham you have ever seen. It is. It is such a win from a green eggs and ham perspective. And my wife will not take it to school. She's like, that is so gross. Well, did you ask her? [01:09:38] Speaker C: Have you tried green eggs and ham. [01:09:42] Speaker E: It is so. It is. It is not. Does not look edible, but it is so on story. It's so on brand for green eggs and ham that I'm very proud of it. So I think that's a win and also a loss because I don't think anybody's ever going to see it anyway. It's something minor, but what popped in. [01:09:57] Speaker B: My head, that's awesome. That's great. That feels about right. That feels like we were talking about earlier in the podcast where when you were CEO, like, you know how to run stuff, you know, to get stuff done, you know, complete projects. When you're a dad, all bets are off. Like, you could run the rest projects in the world, but it all gets thrown out the window. [01:10:13] Speaker E: Brad, I'll take a picture of it and send it to you. [01:10:17] Speaker D: Please do. Please do. [01:10:18] Speaker E: Okay. [01:10:19] Speaker B: Give me the COVID for this video. [01:10:23] Speaker E: All right, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm in. [01:10:25] Speaker B: All right, well, the last thing we always ask is, do you have your favorite dad joke you want to share with, uh, our audience and with the world? [01:10:32] Speaker E: Me. [01:10:33] Speaker B: Who's there? [01:10:35] Speaker E: Oh, no, no. There's another one. Oh, no. Sorry. All right. Knock, knock. Sorry. [01:10:39] Speaker B: Who's there? [01:10:40] Speaker E: Uh, Europe. [01:10:41] Speaker B: You're a poo. [01:10:43] Speaker E: No, Europe. Who. [01:10:46] Speaker B: Walked right into that one. [01:10:49] Speaker E: It's my favorite dad joke of all time. [01:10:51] Speaker B: Oh, it's awesome. Well, Anthony, really appreciate you taking the time to be with us and share your story. Anything else? If people want to learn more about you, anywhere they can go to find you, find your stuff. [01:11:02] Speaker E: Anthony Franco on LinkedIn. Everything I'm up to is pretty much there. [01:11:06] Speaker B: Well, we appreciate you being here. Thanks so much for sharing and being vulnerable with us, and thanks, everyone, for listening. [01:11:14] Speaker E: Thank you, guys. [01:11:20] Speaker C: All right, everybody, welcome back. Hope you enjoyed that interview with Anthony Francois. He's a great guy and a smiley guy, and we just. We really enjoy being around him, and I enjoy being his friend for a long time. But as we move on with this pod, this day, it's time for us to get to our favorite part of the show, which is dad wins and fails. And I tell you, we always have them and the different qualities and things. But, Rob, why don't we start with you? Tell us what's going on. What'd you do? [01:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah, so, as I mentioned early on in the pod there, it's been a busy week. A lot of wins and fails. My win is kind of a two parter. So we were driving after we landed, and we were driving down to the sweating, it was about a two hour drive, and about an hour in, Arthur started to get fussy. And when he's fussy in the car seat, it's really tough because you can't do anything other than kind of talk to him or you have to stop the car, get him out, feed him. And we were literally, like, within a mile of an exit, we were going to pull off. And I think I've mentioned in the past on this show, I've found that one thing, one trick I could do is put music on on my phone and turn it up really loud. And so I was like, you know what? Let's just give this a try. So I put on the Foo Fighters. Dave Grohl, if you're listening, good. Turns out Arthur is a huge fan of the Foo Fighters. And, like, there's something about that music, like the tempo and the percussion. So I turn it on, he goes right back to sleep. And the funny thing is, about halfway, we had about an hour to go. About half an hour in, I get a call on my phone. So it stops the music, and I have to pick up. So I pick up for two minutes, and Arthur starts to get fussy. And so Laura, in the backseat, goes, well, I'll put on music. She puts on Taylor Swift just has no effect. Arthur gets fussy. He gets louder and louder and louder. And then I end my call. Turn the Foo fighters back on. Put it back. He's back out. He's back out for the next half hour until we get to the hotel. So, like, evidence that it is specifically that music, not just. Not just music in general that he likes. And then. So Laura's. [01:13:31] Speaker C: So my line now is to foo or not to foo? That is the question. [01:13:35] Speaker A: Exactly. So Laura's like, I cannot believe my son likes to, but, like, this. This. This music makes my adrenaline. It makes me anxious, and he's just, like, racked out to it. So then we're at the wedding the next night, and I had mentioned he was as fussy as he's ever been. Just inconsolable, really. Quite a tough night for us. And so we spent something like, you know, on and off where we're there, he calms down. He goes to sleep. We go to the ceremony. We come back. He's fussy. It's on and off, on and off, on and off. And finally, there's, like, an hour or two stretch, hour, hour and a half stretch, where he is just not calming down. I've left Laura in a room for a second. She spent time with him. I went up and grabbed a quick dinner. I come back down. I've traded off. She's back up at the meal, and I'm holding him, and he's just inconsolable. And it's been a while. So finally, I'm like, well, you know what? I'm going to try it again. And I turn on the Foo fighters, crank it up. Two minutes. He is out, asleep on my arm, completely dead to the world. So I wait a couple. I waited a minute or two. He stays asleep. I'm able to put him in his bassinet with our babysitters. I leave my phone in there playing the foo Fighters, and I went up. I got to finish my meal. We got to hear all the speeches at the wedding, and we got to do the. Basically see the first dance and do one dance. And after we had done one dance with the band, we got a call from the babysitter racing, like, nah, he's up now. And that was kind of the end of our night. But I bought us, like, a whole hour. And so the joke about my whole family now is that he's a Foo Fighters fan, and Laura is just like, I cannot believe that this is, like, this is what you do. So that's a win for me. Total, totally awesome win. On the fail side, it's been a pretty good week. I would call this more a defeat than a failure. [01:15:27] Speaker D: Okay. [01:15:27] Speaker A: And that is that. Last night, for the first time since Arthur was born, I did not sleep in the same room as Laura and Arthur. So coming out of the wedding, a couple of us have started to feel ill. A little chesty and coffee. No. Everyone's testing negative for COVID, but Laura was feeling fine, Arthur was feeling fine, and I knew that multiple other people were sick in the kind of broader family. There were texts going around, and I wasn't feeling good, and I haven't felt great since, like, a month ago when I got sick a month ago. So I was like, you know what? For the first time, we're at home with our family. There's plenty of support. Arthur's doing well. I'm going to sleep in another bedroom and try and get a full night's sleep and both not get Arthur and Laura sick and to try and feel better. And I felt that, you know, I really didn't want to do that. I didn't want to leave them. I. Throughout this whole time, I've not slept in a separate bedroom. I've kind of been up and down, and, yeah, Laura's been taking the brunt of the changing and the feeding. But I've kind of been there. And I decided to kind of concede to practicality and try and get a full night's sleep and get better. And the good news is I feel. I don't feel 100%, but I feel so much better. I got the best night of sleep I've gotten in two months. But I felt bad. I want to be in that. I want to be in the mix with Laura. I want to be there with my partner. I don't want to kind of leave him. And so obviously there's some guilt there. And I kind of feel defeated that I kind of broke the streak. But, you know, I think, you know, everyone survives. Arthur's happy today. Everyone's good. So those are my wins and fails for the week. Brad, how about you? [01:17:06] Speaker D: I just want to say, it's one. [01:17:07] Speaker C: Of the things, the protect the cave phrasing that you brought up about a month and a half ago here, and I've been thinking about that a lot. And it's hard to protect the cave when you're not in the cave, when you're in another cave. And even if you don't, it's not needed. [01:17:20] Speaker D: Right. [01:17:20] Speaker C: It's that invoking part of being there is useful. Yeah. So I think my fate will end up being a defeat as well. It's kind of interesting in that regard. But lots of wins. Stacking up the wins, which is kind of fun. It's rare sometimes, but yeah. So I think the best, best win I have is actually last night, sir best teaches on Wednesdays. And Theo was tornado. He is getting ready to walk. He's guy, we're really sure he said hello yesterday morning. He's pointing at things and he's not being a disturbance, but he's being just more work, more time or effort. So then I take theo on these evenings where it's already been a long day for me and that. And as he was kind of playing around, he's starting to wind down and started watching a show. Baby driver, great movie on the earbuds. And he starts playing and then I just sit on the floor and he kind of walks over to me, comes with my arms and lays down stuff. And I just had this moment where I said, you know what, I'm going to flip him around and just have him sit in my lap with a toy. And he does that and he is super content. And I think it was my calm. And I'm watching this movie and I'm kind of petting his head and with him, and he drops a toy and I pick it up, and I wasn't thinking much of it. I thought maybe five minutes would go by and he'd want to go do something else. And then you feel the head slump and this kid is out in your lap. And I think he's really, you know, he hasn't done that for me very much. And I'm like, okay, do I stay here? This is a win. Do I stay here and wait for mom to come home? She's driving home right now, or I'm going to take the chance. I took him up to his bed and I put him down and he just, boom, right out. And so that's a categorical dad win. I love that. Two of our wins today, we're both about getting our kids to sleep. And I always think about that, too. I don't want my kid to sleep through life, but it is a big win every time I get him to sleep. [01:19:19] Speaker A: It's shocking how much of my life revolves around getting my child to sleep. And I think it's only going to get worse. It's wild. [01:19:27] Speaker C: And so then the flip side of that is he still sleeps in bed after his first feeding. And the other night he was a tornado. He was a little tasmanian devil. So he has to be between us when he's moving. And so Saraveth only gets one side. And he was just up and down and climbing on dad and over to mom and left and right. And the co sleeping thing has really been working for us. But that's a fail. Is that the one night he decided just to be a tornado? Well, mom gets no sleep and I get fluttered sleep, and my WHOOP testifies to this. So that was a fail. And then the other one, more on the personal side. We've talked a lot about personal health and I've started exercising again, started swimming again. These are great. But there's a win fail in this, which is I've been going to physical therapy and it's time intensive, it's money intensive and it is sports pt is painful, quite painful. My entire neck and my entire it band are bruised. And so I'm hobbling. But I'm also exercising more because they're loosening things up and re triggering things and teaching them to work better. I have this desire to move, which is great for springtime, but it's also a fail. [01:20:37] Speaker D: So that's kind of the win and. [01:20:38] Speaker C: The fail there for me. And, yeah, that's my story this week. [01:20:44] Speaker A: Well, that's awesome. Well, thanks, everyone. If you made it this far, we really appreciate you. Please like and subscribe. Share this with your friends. We're going to try to build a community here. And as always, if you have any comments, feedback, if you want to be on the show, if you know someone who should be on the show, shoot us an email at [email protected]. And don't forget, we're on YouTube now, too, so search us there. Thanks, everybody. [01:21:06] Speaker D: Thank you, everybody. Bye.